Maiden in No Hurry to Headline in the US
An interesting article has appeared in Metal Edge magazine where Bruce continues to express his opinions on the metal scene and attitudes of people in America. Blabbermouth.net brought us this transcription:Metal Edge: In past discussions, you've expressed a strong distaste for "greatest hits" tours. Yet now you're doing another one on Ozzfest. Why do you have such an issue with them?
Bruce Dickinson: "'Greatest-hits' tours are very seductive things, but what annoys me is, when we do the 'hits' tour in Europe, it's got a different perception. When you do the 'hits' tour here [in the U.S.], the audience is smug, and there's a sense of self-satisfaction, like, 'We got what we wanted…' In Europe, there's a sense of celebration, an ecstasy that goes with it. If I'm looking at an audience that is self-satisfied and happy and fat, and getting what it wants and isn't prepared to get off its ass, what am I? A cabaret? Am I dancing bear that just performs in little circles and they clap? I cannot exist for longer than about five minutes like that. Every now and again I don't have any objections to it, but if it becomes a regular thing, that's not why I got involved. I got involved to become a creative artist. I know human nature, and I accept that people like to hear songs that they know, but not withstanding all that, seeing people who are spiritually dead, applauding not because you did a great version of a song, but only because they're familiar with it, is soul destroying. For all of us in MAIDEN, we put so much into the performance… We're actually better, and more effective, now, physically, than we were when we were 25. When we were 25, we were young, dumb and stupid, drunk all the time and hung over. We appreciate what we can and can't do now, and we feel like we owe it to ourselves to give people 100 percent of our heart and soul. When it's the audiences that are apparently just there for the ride, for a while it's disappointment, then it just turns to anger. Why are we doing this to ourselves when the people apparently don't care? They want to see some pastiche shit, and they don't seem to understand that this is our life!"
Metal Edge: That's America, though. This country doesn't want a challenge, they want to be spoon-fed.
Bruce Dickinson: "I understand that's America, but we don't have to tolerate it. It's not a question of being childish and trying to punish them, but if people don't understand what we really do, why do we beat ourselves up by coming here to do it, only to torture ourselves? Because you need the money? We are permanently astonished, in the band, by the different reactions throughout the country, and we can't make any sense of the whole pervasive influence of corporate U.S.A. When you can talk to kids, one on one, it's a completely different than when you get 6,000 of them together. I don't know how we're going to approach America in the future…"
Metal Edge: Does it bother you that people are so driven by the hits that they don't give new material a fair shot?
Bruce Dickinson: "We're very philosophical about it, because we're very aware… Going back to the earliest days of IRON MAIDEN, our first label said we'd never happen in the States, because we were too aggressive, and too out of left field. This was even before I was in the band. Then when we had 'Number of the Beast', people thought we'd convert to TWISTED SISTER and be a flavor of the month. In reality, though, we have more in common with the GRATEFUL DEAD — that's more of who we are. A GRATEFUL DEAD now would be impossible in the United States. The closest you'll get is PEARL JAM, or maybe NEIL YOUNG. We're going to do what we do, which is what we have done. Europe, South America, they've embraced MAIDEN, and to a certain extent, it's unbelievable how the fifteen-, sixteen-year-old kids continue to embrace us there. Where in America we headline a 6,000-seat [venue], in Europe we'll headline a 50,000-seat stadium. For example, French Canada is such an amazing market for us, we deliberately go back there and return the favor. But if people think they just want to see a rock version of 'David Letterman', why should we go there? The money is irrelevant. We can make more money with a two-month hits tour in America than we can touring Japan and Europe. Yes, it's about making a living, but it's about making a living with dignity. Do we really need to go down on bended knee to people that don't care that much about the band? I hate Walmart, and I hate the corporatization of everything in America. I despise it. People need to have their minds made up for them, at this moment, and they need to liberate themselves from that. It drives me nuts… And it's not just America."
Bruce Dickinson's entire interview with Metal Edge is available in the magazine's September 2005 issue, out on the stands now.
Source: Blabbermouth.net
65 Comments
I love interviews like this, Bruce has something to tell and he's really honest about it.
It's funny to see (Blabbermouth) how many Americans are upset now because he said something negative about them in general. Bruce has already proved hisself right.
We still shouldn't turn to basic anti-americanism here. Because the vast majority of the population is sadly composed of virtually illiterate idiots who can't have a single genuine personal thought doesn't mean that those who have a brain and can use it should suffer because they hold a US passport.
Great interview thus far. I'm sure the rest would be just as good. I agree with the "spoon-fed" remark... sad but too true.
Bruce is so right about american.
but we love you anyway !!
Most people at Blabbermouth present themselves as the poor representatives of their countries Bruce is complaining about.
i find it hard to believe that you guys can just generalize AN ENTIRE COUNTRY like that. i dont care if he gets shit thrown at him onstage, they have an obligation to tour the states, given their huge fanbase here. people WORSHIP them here, including myself. i have yet to have a chance to see them live, until a few weeks when they come with ozzfest. but they only play for an hour, and if they cant play a headlining tour here with people that love them, then they dont care about their fans as much as i thought they did.
which fan base ??
a few tens of thousand people in a country of more than 240 M people
??
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They do not have an obligation of any sort. They are doing you a favour by touring your country. Many big bands have stopped touring the United States at some point in their career. Just think of Led Zeppelin or Queen. Sure, they have fans there, but is that a reason to torture themselves?
Even though I don't agree with Bruce on some of his anti-american corporate philosophy rant (eg. he's generalizing too much), I have to say that I like the rest of his words.
I give much respect to such an attitude. Maiden is their lives and they shall be proud of it.
Cheers
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funny you should ask, because it fell off about two months ago. i've had to get into the habit of using my right shift key (a real bitch, by the way)
a few tens of thousand people in a country of more than 240 M people
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well, big enough to sell out every show they play...
You America bashers have no idea what the hell youre talking about.
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I don't know about the other American concerts, but the off-Ozzfest show here in Denver is not yet sold out with less than 2 weeks left until the concert. However, that may not mean much: the situation was the same last time Maiden played Denver, but the previous show did indeed sell out by the date of the concert.
Whoever is responsible for promoting / advertising the concert may be largely to blame. Even though the tickets have been on sale for over 2 months, they just started advertising here this past week.
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I don't have ozzfest 05 attendance datas yet, but during their summer 2003 tour, none shows were sold out and in 2004 they were also not able to sell out theaters in NY and LA ...
well, big enough to sell out every show they play...
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Mav was pointing out that you should use it.
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I'm sorry mate, but as long as your country keeps advertising itself so poorly abroad, there is no chance that your popularity will rise. And, quite honestly, judging from what I've read, the USA is not a very good host either.
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Now, while I dislike America, I feel they should be given a fair chance, but stop complaining! People in South America aren't getting ANY tour... Remember that before you open your mouth to complain about the fact Maiden don't show over there. Bands like Joe Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen and others don't show in Europe nearly at all, they all tour in America, the effect goes both ways.
Bruce is far too aggressive about America in my opinion, but I'd agree on a few points
Thats exactly what this is all about, you're too used to getting what you want all the time out there. While they continue to tour, they see the American audience getting older in years, where as South America, Europe embrace Maiden fanatically from a young age. Theres so much more worth in doing a concert if you know people are out there enjoying you stuff, but also being energetic about it.
I am really wondering what good old Bael would think of all this. He was (and probably still is) always pretty critical about his own country. I bet he would like this subject.
edit: This shows what Bruce is talking about. The spoiled entertain-me attitude of some Americans: found on Blabbermouth.net:
"Bruce, this would be ecstasy.
To Tame A Land
Alexander the Great
Still Life
Invaders
Powerslave
Children of the Damned
Another Life
Murders in the Rue Morgue
Moonchild
Prodigal Son
until then, I'm going to take a piss during Run to the Hills."
Now. I was at Ozzfest in Chicago yesterday. This was my first real concert as I am from India and have recently joined grad school in the US. I actually went to Ozzfest with a bunch of US kids who have a band and will be coming out with their first demo in a few days. The moment the drummer (a 15 year old kid born and bought up in the US) saw my old, Iron Maiden t-shirt (fake of course, but that's what you get in India), he said "Who the hell are Iron Maiden?" I didn't know what to say. I just managed to say "they are the band whom I worship." The whole day I saw idiotic bands growling and making noise all the time and I saw American kids doing the "mosh pit" and stuff. Really, with the exception of "As I lay Dying" (who actually paid tribute to maiden by citing them as one of their biggest influences) and to a certain extent "Killswitch engage", nothing on the second stage was good. I was hungry, thirsty and almost dead (food and hell, even water was expensive). Then, I decided to eat something anyway and was sitting there watching bands perform on the main stage. By the way, about 50% of the audience there was wearing Iron Maiden t-shirts and they were all outside eating, drinking beer when the other bands were playing on the main stage. I was just sitting there.
Then, they began setting up the stage for Iron Maiden. It slowly started sinking into my noise-dead brain that it was time to see the Gods themselves, I poured water on my face, drank some more water, ate another atrociously expensive pretzel and waited and the crowd filled in. Then, when I heard Nicko's drums, the crowd just went wild. I went wild. There were people who are twice my age in front of me. But they started cheering for Maiden like 16 year-old. I sang cheered, yelled and acted like a lunatic for what was to be the best 60 minutes of my life. I sang every song and was not sitting down for even a single second. Bruce had the crowd up and all roused up. If Bruce is unhappy with this, I can't imagine what the crowd in Europe is like!! Here's a confession-I have never touched tobacco, alcohol or drugs in my entire life. I never will, but yesterday, for the first time in my life, I was high-high on Iron Maiden music. Oh my God!! What energy, what music, what showmanship!!
Oh, I forgot to mention, I didn't watch Maiden with the guys I went to Ozzfest with because they had the lawn tickets and I was a little closer to the stage. Then, I went back to join these guys before Sabbath started and the same drummer goes like "Man, I didn't know Iron Maiden, I didn't know their songs. Do you have them?" 
. The vocalist of the band who is my friend, who is from India and worships Maiden says "I have 'em". Then the very next thing the kid says was "Mudvayne was awesome." I say to myself "Ok".
That was my first Iron Maiden concert experience. I too felt that the audience was smug and really had the "I got what I wanted" attitude. As a person who has grown up outside the US and getting to know the US better, I would say, that the corporatization of America is really to blame. Kids of America don't have minds of their owns. They are spoon-fed everything-and their minds are like they are in a Matrix. They don't know anything about the world beyond the US shores. They don't know the history of anything beyond the US shores.
BUT!! there is a minority which is not like that. I saw 15-16 year old kids wearing "PowerSlave" shirts. That made me a believer again. I believe good music will be there no matter what. I really thought that no one would know Iron Maiden so I would be able to go and stand right in the front-but no. There are people who worship Maiden and should not be denied the opportunity to see them. That is where I beg to defer with Bruce. You can't just generelize an entire nation. That is like saying "Iron Maiden is a Heavy Metal band-you know the kind who worship the devil." That's it.
UP THE IRONS!!! 
Yes Maiden doesn't tour the heartland of America & in the meanwhile some good US bands -yes, there are some, rock or metal- don't tour Europe either. It certainly goes in both ways and unless you decide to cross the pond to get a chance to see a piece of the action live, there are some bands u'll never get to see. That's the reason why as a die-hard live fanatic I often travel round Europe to catch bands who ignore France or would like to come but no way, since playing a 300 capacity venue would make them bankrupt for the rest of the tour!
Going back to that generalisation about the narrow mindedness of your average fat american, it is quite often sad but true! One track minded fools with a few exceptions as ever, but who hardly seem to get noticed at Maiden concerts or anywhere else. Being on vacation in California and Nevada at the moment, I had more than my fair share of embarassment realizing how ignorant people can be here. And I thank fuck for not being born here in the middle of a culture less civilisation. but as far as we're all gonna keep bowing down to the stars & stripes and keep going to see very mediocre movies or listen to mediocre stuff from the States on the radio, we will play their game.
Now, let's be honest, there are some absolutely magnificent landscapes here. some great authors (most'of'em went to Europe at some point...) some good music, and also a really poor level of education, of "eye-opening" on the world outside. Which is another deep political issue that would take ages to debate upon. But since this country has almost no public services, no chances of bringing someone from the working class to college, and nothing more to offer than a communautarist view of the society.
Well... what can u expect from a system based on "if u have money, fair enough, get some more and if u don't, well: better luck next time!" I know Imight sound like the old groaning and moaning frenchman here, never ready to admit its own country ain't in excellent shape neither (especially right now under the Nicolas Sarkozy era, our home office secretary, blinded by the light coming from the States and who would like to make our nation follow its path) But, hey at least we can still go to university for free and really learn from books and get some decent programs on TV, without having ads every ten minutes and eveythong sponsored by Coca-Cola or Wal-Mart (Yes, even the shows over here all all Bud or Pepsi sponsored, still the tickets reach some dizzy heights. Like, i wanted to go & see Journey tonight in Saratoga Cal. 100 $ for one ticket, plus 10 $ car park.)
I am often wondering how one can enjoy the pleasures of a normal life, over here, without being a millionaire from day one!
Anyway maybe one day the US will realise they're not the center of the universe, but I am not even sure that 9/11 put a shadow of a doubt in the minds of most of its people about that. No we don't dream of a world coroporate, trade marked US world. Yes, we are unique and want respect for that. And as far as the spoon-fed millions in the Us don't get it, what can u expect but a growing gap between them & us.
OK, enuff for the lecture, have a good one Maiden fans 
rohangc, thanks for the review of your first Maiden experience. Though different, I'm sure it will bring memories to many here.
The feeling you describe when you hear the music live for the first time is something that no Maiden fan can forget. It's really uplifting.
Cheers
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My mistake then; I thought the Denver show was sold out. If it wasn't, it had to be damn close because the arena was full, at least as far as I could see.
I'm starting to become slightly annoyed at the number of non-Americans who have taken this opportunity to level half-incorrect criticisms at my country. Some of the things that have been said here are true, but many are only half-right. And some criticisms are completely inappropriate. An example:
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While you are naturally entitled to any opinion you like about American TV shows, criticizing the timing of TV commercials here is just stupid. Yes, we do some things differently here than in Europe. This is one of them. That doesn't mean it's good or bad in itself - it's just different. A Euro-centric attitude which labels anything different as automatically inferior is ridiculous.
Some of the statements made in this thread are reasonable criticisms, though they are so broadly generalized as to suggest ignorance of the details. If you want to criticize America, fine: there's a lot of rotten stuff here to bitch about. But get your facts straight first. Don't try to pretend that you can fairly judge America based on limited experience here and Euro-centric attitudes.
I love bruce but i think he needs to stop whining about America. Yeah I know this country blows, and I know there are tons of shitty bands here, and lots of people like shitty music, but I am an Iron Maiden fan and I want to go to Iron Maiden shows, along with a millions other fans in this whole country, so they shouldn't just 'not' play here...
People need to have their minds made up for them, at this moment, and they need to
liberate themselves from that. It drives me nuts… And it's not just America."
Bruce is right on the mark. His remarks regarding French speaking Canada are also right on. English Canada looks south to the US for our culture while Quebec remains a more or less true Canadian province. Ontario and the west has sold itself cheap to the US.
He didn't come across as anti American. I didn't read that. He is accurate in that US and English Canada is a corporate state devoid of spirit. We have lots of money but it ain't that much fun. Everything here is about who can make the most amount of money by doing as little as possible. Iron Maiden chooses not to participate in the TV style music bizz that manufactures stars in offices in New York.
When I saw them in Quebec a few weeks ago it was cool. It was fun. I've been to many arena Metal concerts throught the early 80's and early 90's. The Maiden fans in Quebec where the real thing. Everyone stood, screamed and sang the words to every song. I was wondering if Maiden was actually getting off on this or if they were just doing the routine like so many corporatized produced acts do these days. It gets difficult to tell who is acting and who is for real. Maiden seemed to be having as much fun as the we were. I'd say after reading the article that, yes, the band was getting off on the crowd as much as we where getting off on them.
Bruce does have the maturity and experiance and I'd say the wisdom to make comments and say it like it is.
Don't try to pretend that you can fairly judge America based on limited experience here and Euro-centric attitudes.[COLOR=red]
Don't feel threatened by the euro centric behaviour -in case there happens to be one which I slightly doubt- SMX. But it's probably high time U learn a foreign language or get to know how foreigners live if U're so afraid of being rejected for just being american. I am not judging your country here, just comparing what can be compared, having the experience of a french citizen frequently flying to the States.
But I have a good point for U: the record prices: be it here or in Canada, be they new or 2nd hand, they're so low it helps to discover new stuff!
Bad point now more directly aimed at Maiden gigs in the US, I went to see'em in New York, at the Madison Square Gardens 5 years ago, spending the whole show between people leaving their seat every 5 minutes for a drink or a snack -there was a food stand just outside the door- and talking all the time. What's the point?
I chatted with a few guys after the gig. One of'em then was in his 30's and hadn't heard of the band since the "Somewhere" era and suddendly remembered that name from his youth: Iron Maiden. Still, he couldn't care less regarding their newer stuff and hardly knew a new album was out (BNW by the time).
Nice of the fellow to leave home for the gig, but he didn't really seemed "involved" with the concert. A kind of attitude similar to the one Bruce seems to regret from his american "fans" in the Metal Edge (?) interview. A fact later confirmed backstage, where the band got surrounded by people just happy to be there for a free drink or disturbing private conversations in order to try to advertize their music companies to the guitar players! The band seemed a tad astonished not to meet real fans and only merchants there! And it's no wonder Steve is so hesitating about touring the US these days since he doesn't need the money, but mainly the respect from the fans. He'll always get the former but seems to miss the latter...
And I suppose "best of" tours are not the best way to let him reconsider things from a different angle.
Unfair criticism there for several reasons.
-We are not forced to listen to "their" movies or watch "their" films. There are about as many mediocre European substitutes. Likewise, there are many American films, bands, etc. that outshine their European as is vice-versa. I believe eight or nine of my ten favourite films are American, as are a number of my favourite bands. I don't think the Americans actually produce a higher rate of crap than Europeans, it's just that the Americans produce more in general, so there is obviously more crap. Sometimes, only the crap is exported, sometimes only the good stuff is exported.
Good for you, Frenchie... let me tell you, free university is fading away in the Old World. I am a refugee of university fees. I have to study in a place I don't want to because I can't pay the fee in the place I want to study.
Oh? Odd, I seemed to have missed that. Must have been that I've not been paying attention because I was distracted by some in-film ad that drowned out picture and sound of the film they were showing...
I am hardly ever missing out a chance to criticize the US, but if I do so, I am always very careful when it comes to comparisons with Europe. Remember this: Even though our constitutions may be better worded or our morale principles more sane, even if the average education of [insert-European-country-here] may be higher than that of the US (which I will only believe when I see a reliable study, considering how many stupid Germans there are) or anything like that, Europeans are by no means better people than Americans. Americans deserve the same rights and dignities as Europeans. Many people seem to forget that when bashing the New World.
-
Don't worry Perun, waistedinparis is FRENCH, i don't have to say more....
french don't like american... jealousy, nothing else
Vive les Etats-Unis d'Amerique !!!
-We are not forced to listen to "their" movies or watch "their" films. There are about as many mediocre European substitutes. Likewise, there are many American films, bands, etc. that outshine their European as is vice-versa. I believe eight or nine of my ten favourite films are American, as are a number of my favourite bands.
There are very few interesting bands from the States imo, especially when it comes to metal. The quality is higher in Europe, unless you like nu-metal.
Tastes differ of course and this is just my opinion, but I couldn't resist mentioning this.
edit: This shows what Bruce is talking about. The spoiled entertain-me attitude of some Americans: found on Blabbermouth.net:
"Bruce, this would be ecstasy.
To Tame A Land
Alexander the Great
Still Life
Invaders
Powerslave
Children of the Damned
Another Life
Murders in the Rue Morgue
Moonchild
Prodigal Son
until then, I'm going to take a piss during Run to the Hills."
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same here!
but i think that Holy Smoke should be on the list as well
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Outrageous.
Don't feel like ranting about this topic. Too sad reading some of the posts here.
Having lived in the States among cultured people (not Maiden fans though) makes me biased anyway. But I've known some punk fans, and they were cultured, too.
The United States of America has a more diverse population than any country on earth. We have people from every side of the political, religious and racial spectrum that exist. If you live any where else in the world, I have a neighbor just like you. If all Americans were just like me, every Iron Maiden concert would be filled with screaming maiden fanatics, but that would make our country a generic place and not the melting pot that we are. We not only love the classic Maiden that made them famous, but we also crave and enjoy all of their new material. The United States of America is not only Washington D.C., New York, and Los Angeles. It would be impossible to know anything about our diverse culture without living here for many years.
french don't like american... jealousy, nothing else
Vive les Etats-Unis d'Amerique !!!
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Poor, really poor, spillsome- aiming at nationality. I am from Germany, and I can tell you that the US is almost as unpopular here as in France.
Let me tell you something. It does not have anything to do with jealousy. Why should Europeans be jealous of the US? Seriously.
I am sorry if my previous post suggested that I was pro-American and anti-French. Just because I am being fair to the US does not mean I approve of their culture, society or politics. In fact, my view of the US is generally negative, and is only lightened up by examples which prove otherwise; but in neither way do I ever generalize.
Sorry, but your remark was one of the most arrogant things I've read in a long time.
Tastes differ of course and this is just my opinion, but I couldn't resist mentioning this.
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I didn't focus entirely on metal, and I didn't focus entirely on the present day. I was thinking of bands and artists such as Bob Dylan, Simon&Garfunkel, The Doors, Metallica or Megadeth while writing this.
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Sorry, but what you wrote there applies to a big number of countries- the UK, France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium, Austria... the US is nothing special anymore in that area.
.......
It would be impossible to know anything about our diverse culture without living here for many years.
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Seems you know the USA well. Have you been in all the other countries on earth as well?
No? Then you cannot know what you preach.
(I am using your own arguments:
"It would be impossible to know anything about diverse culture of a country without living there for many years.")
Even more sadness 
Xenophobia and sad argumentation about a natural fact. All people are equal, only they are different.
Sorry, but the statistics don't agree. The US is less than 80% white whilst the countries listed above are over 90% white. African American culture is huge here and it dominates sports, movies, TV and music in a far larger percentage than the population (12.9%). I really do not think that hip-hop culture is as strong in Europe.
As such, there is a direct effect on the amount of teenagers that get into metal when it is not as cool here as it may be there. Also, being white is uncool in the US and Maiden is a white as mayonaise.
Where is this statistic list?
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If this is true, it's a bit of a sad statement. I never like/dislike anyone just because of the colour of the skin. But then again, that's just me...
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Originally I was sad, now I'm angry. Thanks for help
Yeah, being cool is really the meaning of life.
This is getting annoying.
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Sorry about that.
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Search the internet for demographics of certain countries.
[quote=Forostar,Aug 1 2005, 02:26 PM]
Seems you know the USA well. Have you been in all the other countries on earth as well?
No? Then you cannot know what you preach.
I am not insulting other countries, and I am not preaching. Only stating fact.
I can understand the nature of this topic could raise some heated debates but can we all be careful not to cross the line and make anything that could be taken as racism. I'd rather not close this topic if I can avoid it
Thanks
Thanks
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I am not being racist, and sorry if it comes off that way, I am just trying to express my views on US culture. I am not saying it is right, wrong or in between, I am just saying that things here are different, and a large part of it is due to our demographics.
I suppose RWs remarks were aimed at my camp.
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United States of America
Population (2000 census): 280,562,489
White (includes French German Dutch Polish Russian Fleming Irish English Scottish Welsh Italian and all other races considered white) : 211,460,626 (75.1%) (; Black: 34,658,190 (12.3%); Asian: 10,242,998 (3.6%); American Indian and Alaska Native: 2,475,956 (0.9%); Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander: 398,835 (0.1%); other race: 15,359,073 (5.5%); Hispanic origin:1 35,305,818 (12.5%)
Protestant 56%; Roman Catholic 28%; Jewish 2%; other 4%; none 10%
All of the countries you mentioned might add up together to some of the diversity found in the U.S.A.
United Kingdom
Population (2005 est.): 60,441,457
English 81.5%; Scottish 9.6%; Irish 2.4%; Welsh 1.9%; Ulster 1.8%; West Indian, Indian, Pakistani, and other 2.8%
Anglican and Roman Catholic 40 million, Muslim 1.5 million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 500,000, Hindu 500,000, Jewish 350,000
Germany
Population (2005 est.): 82,431,390
German 91.5%, Turkish 2.4%, Italian 0.7%, Greek 0.4%, Polish 0.4%, other 4.6%
Protestant 34%, Roman Catholic 34%, Islam 3.7%, Unaffiliated or other 28.3%
Spain
Population (2005 est.): 40,341,462
composite of Mediterranean and Nordic types
Roman Catholic 94%, other 6%
The Netherlands
Population (2005 est.): 16,407,491
Dutch 83%, other 17% (9% of non-Western origin, mainly Turks, Moroccans, Antilleans, Surinamese, and Indonesians)
Roman Catholic 31%, Protestant 21%, Islam 4.4%, other 3.6%, unaffiliated 40%
Belgium
Population (2005 est.): 10,364,388
Fleming 58%, Walloon 31%, mixed or other 11%
Roman Catholic 75%, Protestant or other 25%
Austria
Population (2005 est.): 8,184,691
German 88.5%, recent immigrant groups 10% (includes Turks, Bosnians, Serbians, Croatians), indigenous minorities 1.5% (includes Croatians, Slovenes, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Roma)
Roman Catholic 74%, Protestant 5%, Islam 4%, other 17%
Source: http://www.factmonster.com/countries.html
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Ha
Boy, you sure proved me wrong.
Still, these figures have nothing to do with Bruce's words. The entertain-me attitude of the average American audience stays the same and it has nothing to do with skin colour.
Sorry, but your remark was one of the most arrogant things I've read in a long time.
ah, you are from Germany..and you are talking about arrongance ? funny
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Unlike you, I don't think this is funny.
This is my fifth and probably last post in this thread.
I think this niveau of communication has nothing to do on a board that I praise for wit, tolerance and insight.
But then again, to quote the mighty, maybe that's just me.
Let me side with Real World on this one. As much as I don't want to close the thread, I'd rather see an intelligent and appropriately argumented discussion than a slanging match about which nationality is better or worse.
If you want to fight about such petty things as cultural/national/ethnic origins and how good or bad they may be, please take it somewhere else.
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My comments aren't directed at any one particular individual but at everyone as a friendly warning. Just saying a few peoples comments are a bit touchy. As Mav said this isnt for discussing which nation is best. The metal scene in the US is different from Europe. Their attitudes and wants from a concert are different but its not to say that the Americans are morons or dont appreciate Maiden.
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The only funny thing is that I can see your posts despite the fact that I put you on my ignore list...
EDIT: Works now...
Add my voice, RW and Mav. I'm having a close check on what's going on in here.
The line between an elaborate argumentation and blatant hate is sometimes thin on such touchy subjects. Please all pay attention to what you write before you do.
I want to add that saying that all Americans are all morons or that the US are bastards is just blatant racism, just as saying this for any particular group of people from other parts of the world.
It's not because a country has a high GDP, is industrialized, is occidental or whatever the excuse, that general attacks aren't racism.
While I personnaly encourage the total freedom of speech, we decided to have rules on Maidenfans and these rules apply for all kind of racism. There's no double-standards.
Cheers
I hate everyone indiscriminately, so I can't be accused of racism of any kind!
/piss-take mode
![lol[1].gif](style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol[1].gif)
In response to Juju from page 1. He states that Iron Maiden did not sell out any shows during the brief Death on the Road tour in early 2004. I can safely say that the first show at the Univeral Amphitheatre in mid-January in Los Angeles was sold out. The place holds 6000 people and without a major promotion and basically no radio airplay that in my opinion says that there are still people who like Iron Maiden.
I can also say that Iron Maiden seems to be popular with the new generation of rockers. Whenever I drive around the city of Los Angeles, I see Maiden shirts worn here and there.
The truth in Los Angeles, CA, USA is that Iron Maiden does not receive any radio airplay whatsoever. The local rock station 95.5 KLOS does not play any Maiden. Even though they support Maiden by announcing their concerts during radio commercials, the radio station does not play their music. We know that if people can't listen to their music then there'll be less people supporting them. It's a fact. The most popular bands such as U2, the Stones, Tom Petty, and various others are popular because they are played on the radion constantly.
In my opinion, it is very, very respectable for a band such as Maiden playing concerts in the US because of the above stated reason. For a band that has been playing for 25+ years, with no radio airplay and still pack 10000 people into an American arena is saying a lot.
Thank you very much!
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It's the same in Denver. The last Maiden show here (GMETID, 2003) was partially sponsored by a local radio station (KPBI) and the first two bands (Motorhead and Dio) were introduced by a DJ from the station. Yet, the station itself never plays any music by Maiden, Dio or Motorhead, and I never heard any mention of the concert on the air. (Though I will admit that I only listen to the radio sporadically, so I could easily have missed such a mention.)
Somewhere earlier in this thread, I mentioned that the show next week is also not getting much promotion. I have to conclude that one or both of the following is true:
1. Whoever is responsible for advertising and promoting these concerts is doing a terrible job. Maiden either doesn't know this, or doesn't care. If they don't know, fine; hopefully, they'll eventually hire better publicists. But if they approve of their lousy PR in the States, and then have the chutzpah to complain about their audiences, then I'd have to say it's Maiden's (or maybe just Bruce's) personal problem.
2. It could be that every single person in American radio really does want to avoid promoting Maiden, and the fault does not lie with Maiden's publicists. Or given how most American radio stations are owned by a few conglomerates, maybe those corporations have a policy of only actively supporting newer bands and they don't allow their DJs any leeway.
Which is true? Probably some of both. As far as getting Maiden on the radio, I thinks it's mostly #2 - but I have seen some evidence for #1 (again, refer to my first post in this thread for an example).
Finally, I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I think I've come to this conclusion: Bruce is mostly wrong. He expressed an opinion about Americans which is only partially correct. Yes, some Americans fit his description. But based on the many people I've known in this country, the vast majority of Americans are better than Bruce suggests.
Bruce is naturally entitled to his opinion, and I remain open-minded to the idea that he is basing his opinion on a substantially different group of Americans from the ones I've known. Maybe I've been very lucky to know a lot of intelligent persons while Bruce has been unlucky enough to meet a lot of fools.
So just as Bruce is entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine: Bruce is mostly wrong, but in the long run this is all pretty silly. I'm not going to enjoy Maiden shows any less just because a minority of fans might be idiots. Maybe the reason I've never seen "smug" attitudes at a Maiden show is because I've been too busy enjoying the show to care if someone else is dumb enough to spend money on a ticket and then refuse to enjoy the concert.
I give much respect to such an attitude. Maiden is their lives and they shall be proud of it.
Cheers
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I agree. In the end, Bruce is just voicing the band's sentiments.
This sort of thing is why Bruce should be brighter than to make unfair (and, speaking as a member of the American adolescence that he targeted, largely inaccurate) generalizations like this one. Every time that someone makes this sort of remark, they stir up the age-old pro-/anti-American debate.
I find it sad that people who should have come here to talk about the fanship of Maiden that they all share are reduced to this kind of unfounded mudslinging.
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Unless you say "some people", your statement is a generalization too. Have you read all the posts in this thread?
Sorry, I must have contracted the Picky syndrome
....
He didn't come across as anti American. I didn't read that. He is accurate in that US and English Canada is a corporate state devoid of spirit. We have lots of money but it ain't that much fun.
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This may come as a shock to you, but there is more to Canada than Quebec, Ontario, and the West. There are four provinces just a little to the right (east) of Rivere de Loup. They are Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island (the 3 Maritime Provinces) and Newfoundland & Labrador.
Their total population is roughly 2.3 million, one of which is me.
English Canada does not, as you argue, look south to the US. We are not all rich. In the Maritimes, we have our own culture, history, and identity; much like the other regions of Canada have their own identities.
English Canada is not a "corporate state" which is oozing with money. The Eastern Provinces, in fact, are among the poorest regions in the developed world, due to criminal mis-management from Upper Canada since 1867.
---
As for anti-americanism, I'll say this: It runs rampant on these forums. People have assumptions that Americans are fat, stupid, lazy, and greedy. They are not. The vast majority of Americans are just like the vast majority of any other country: They want to work, support their families, and have a bit of fun.
People assume they're all war-mongers because of the leaders they elect, or that they're all fundamentalists because there is currently a religious revival occuring in many parts of the country. I've been to America a few times and seen the real 'heartbeat of America' - the decent, honest people who built that great nation. More importantly than my travels, I dated an America for two years. I probably have as many close American friends as I do Canadian. In other words, though I'm a proud, flag-waving Canadian, I'm familiar with the American spirit and admire it.
I hate to say this, but I think Iron Maiden are the ones being too corporate here. If their concerts only attract 5000 fans in the US, but a concert in Europe will attract 50,000, that's 10x the tickets sales (and money) for the same amount of work. So they naturally prefer to play in Europe.
I'll get off my high horse now.
Okay, Charlotte, you've got me there. Duly noted.
I think the Duke is absolutely right. From what I've seen of other cultures, especially Britain as I spent last summer there, our peoples are really not all that dissimilar. But then, edbaldhead argues that it's "impossible to know a country's culture without living there for many years" so maybe I--and the vast majority of us for that matter--should shut up.
I found an interesting older interview with Bruce on the web, and he was talking the same stuff three years ago. Just thought I'd let you know...
His comments seem a bit fairer and more carefully worded in the interview you posted. Maybe he's just getting meaner with age...
I'll add my bit.
I live in America. I used to be happy about my country; now I'm angry and disturbed. I do not like television; I haven't owned one for 22 years. I will not hook up the sattelite, not ever, because I know the tv programs our people, people all over the nation, and I don't like programmed people.
I dislike the materialism of my country. I hate Wal-Mart. I can't stand McDonald's, and all the rest of the rotters.
But I love Maiden forever. Even when I see Bruce putting America down, and putting the audience down, I still love him. You see, I respect him and what he has to say. But he doesn't speak of me when he berates Americans. I wish he would understand (and probably he does) that not all Americans are fat, lazy, and spoon-fed. Nor smug.
My wife and I just got back from Denver, Colorado, USA. We saw Maiden at the former Fiddler's Green (now Coors Ampitheatre). Mastodon opened, Rob Zombie followed, leading the way for the Great Ones.
Traffic and highway delays held us back, and we missed Mastodon's performance entirely. We did get to see Rob Zombie, and he was good, very good. I had never seen him before, but he was good. I was impressed.
But I didn't cheer, I didn't raise my arms in the traditional Metal tribute. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I looked around; about four of five seats were occupied. Some were wearing Zombie shirts, along with a smattering of other shirts featuring various bands, but at least six of ten were sporting Maiden shirts. A few were old (I could have been one of them, but I bought a new one so I could have a momento of the concert) but most of them were brand-new.
Rob Zombie played for 45 minutes or so, and there were definitely a good percentage of the crowd who proved to be quite enthusiastic about their performance, like I say. They put on a good show. But I didn't come to see them. I came to see Maiden. I realise that the arms upraised, the cheering, the catcalls, that's what it's all about. But I'm sort of withdrawn, and I don't get much time in hooting and hollering at shows. Most everybody else responds vocally at a fireworks display, but not I. I just sit quietly and watch. Just as I did with Zombie. Oh, I was standing, you couldn't see the show if you sat, but I didn't get involved.
Then they were gone, and like our Indian friend, as they started to take all of Zombie's stuff away and reveal Maiden's, I began to let it sink into myself that directly I was to see the Awesome Ones from my teen years. I was about to come face to face with my heroes. I felt a giant surge of anticipation and energy. When the venue went dark, and I knew the show was on, I shot my arms up into the air and commenced screaming. I didn't care about the people around me or what they were doing; I was in my element: at a live Maiden Performance. The moment had arrived.
I screamed my lungs out, bellowing the words along with Steve and Bruce. I broke a sweat, and flung myself into extacy with pure abandon. When Bruce told us he couldn't hear us, I screamed all the louder. I gyrated and shot my arms out, out, out in time with the beat of the sacred music. Bruce said the marijuana smoke was mellowing us fuckers out, and he was about to succumb to the toxic fumes. It was giving me a killer headache. But I screamed until I couldn't scream and kept trying anyway. I jumped up and down like a teenager, and I held up my arms and turned to face the crowd. I saw fifteen thousand pairs of arms, doing the same thing I was doing. Not a seat in the place was empty. The venue was packed to the hilt. I reveled in the sight of the spotlights shining on the sea of arms and I said, Yeaaaah!!!! That's what I'm talking about!! I slapped hands with the surrounding people and went back to my frenzied jamming out.
When the Sacred Performance was over, I began to pound my chair; Bruce said it would be a real show, like the early years at Tingly, and I knew they would be back around, so I pounded the chair like a madman to lend them some impetus. When they came back around, Bruce informed us they are releasing a new studio album next year, and said they'd be back. They played several more songs, and I screamed myself hoarse.
During the course of events, when Bruce was rousing the crowd to a fever pitch, he seemed satisfied with the level of noise we produced. He smiled and nodded with satisfaction. He said you could cut the atmosphere with a knife.
The last time they Performed in denver, he was condescending, angry, and fed up. I was disappointed, and felt let down. Doesn't he understand how much we love them? Doesn't he know I have his every solo album? Doesn't he know I wake in the morning with an Iron Maiden tune in my head? I suppose, really, that he can't be expected to know.
But I do know that if he only looks at sales records, and sees only that their albums sell comparitively few in America, he overlooks the real deal. He overlooks those whom Maiden has inspired. I may be older now, but I saw a lot of teens there.
Maiden may not be able to justify touring America. But I will be devastated if they do not.
I really like your story. Add one more to the list of people testifying that Maiden isn't quite as forsaken here as Bruce tends to believe...
That's what I'm saying....but I don't know of a way to help them understand there are those of us out here...I'm glad to see Steve saying they like playing in America, because that's a nice counteractive to all the negative stuff I have heard over the past couple years since the last tour.